INSPIRING STORIES

 CRÉSUS’ story: Meeting with Jean-Louis Kiehl, laureate of the France Convergences Award in 2011

About CRÉSUS

CRÉSUS is a network of federated not-for-profit associations founded 23 years ago, and whose mission is recognized as being of public utility. Its purpose is to help and to support people in fragile economic situation by protecting them from isolation. One of the association’s main purpose is to prevent financial, economic and social exclusion through interventions and training with economic and social institutions, and by implementing high level pedagogical actions.

In 2004, the first CRÉSUS associations gathered in a federation in order to improve best practices sharing, benefit from technical support and training for their volunteers. Today, nearly 550 expert volunteers welcome, inform and support people in debt distress or over-indebtness situations to help them find the most suitable solution to their financial, social and legal difficulties.

CRÉSUS received the France Convergences Award in 2011. Jean-Louis Kiehl, founder of CRÉSUS, participated to the Grand Convergences Award during the 10th Convergences World Forum.

Discover more about CRÉSUS with this interview of Jean-Louis Kiehl (French only).

“You know, someone who is in debt is rejected everywhere, we count up to 3 suicides a day. It is a phenomenon of serious concern. 1over-indebtedness file is filed in every 3 minutes, day and night. France is one of the last country that did not adopt a credit file that could prevent people from contracting “one loan too many” that pushes people into misery.”

What is your career path ?

I started my career as a legal expert. My career history is quite peculiar. I began working at the age of 14 in Germany as an apprentice. I was born in a poor family and at Mercedes, there was an intern university which rewarded the best apprentices and enabled them to pursue higher education. I worked 15 years for Mercedes where I was received a training in institutional communication: I was a group representative of the group in Africa. When I came back, I went back to school to attend a law faculty, where I completed a first degree, a bachelor,  then a master degree and then an advanced degree in litigation law. I ended up majoring the “Concours general” a very prestigious competition. Afterwards, I served during 10 years as Ombudsman of the Republic. It was when I left the private sector for a public institution that I discover over-indebtness, because I was not allowed to deal with it. The litigation between a bank and a citizen is a private litigation which is not within the remit of the Ombudsman’s competence. 27 years ago, we started with the creation of a first association based in Strasbourg.

What was the trigger point that drove you to create this project ?

We created this idea of co-construction and ofstarted thinking of building a partnership with banking institutions for supporting over-indebted households in 2008 at the moment of the subprimes crise. During this crisise of over-indebtness, loans had been allocated without verification. The first who ones who are able to detect fragile clients customers are the bankers (at the view ofthanks to the bank overdraft). We cannot waitcannot afford to wait for indebt people to for the public to come to us., Ppeople generally come to us come very late, ly when their situation is already compromised. If banks handle the mission of to detect them early, instead of doing major heavy surgery, we will be able to support them and help them to go away out from theiris situation. An otherAnother observation:, when we help helping someone who is financially fragile to redress the balanceraise the bar, it is also profitable for public authorities.

“We started in 2008, it was very hard because you know, working with banks is not easy. They wanted to have results rapidly, but in the social economy sector we look at results from a social perspective.”

We then created 27 associations, with 600 volunteers and welcome 130 000 households per year. In 2008 we went further: we wanted to professionalize our actions, and build a national platform at Strasbourg. We started in 2008, it was very hard because you know, working with banks is not easy. They wanted to have results rapidly, but in the social economy sector we look at results from a social perspective. Finally we succeeded, thanks to digital tools, to show that it was relevant to work together.

It is at this moment that we presented our application to the Convergences Award.

What impact did your participation to the Convergences Award have?

 

It encouraged us, and gave us the will to keep going that way. From the beginning of the project, the Convergences Award encouraged us to pursue our actions as it meant a recognition of the originality of the project and its impact. It helped us value our model: we had 5 partners at the beginning, now we have more than 60 and a waiting list of institutions willing to join us.

Since your nomination to the Convergences Award, did the nature of your partnerships evolve?

 

What is interesting is the idea of hybridization of social economy towards real economy. At the beginning we were associated to companies’ CSR (Corporate Social Responsibility): banks, institutions, mutual insurance companies prided themselves for their participation to the battle against over-indebtness. Today we are asked for services, to train bank employees, to work on tools, on detection algorithms. We became more and more professional and we share our expertise with other economic agents. The only actor which did not follow us yet is the Government. The Government is undergoing a significant overhaul and faces budget concerns. This is why we built a model that enabled us to develop without public support.

What are the values that you want to keep during the development of your project?

 

Conciliate technological innovation and ethical values. Not losing our ethic in innovation is essential but also, it is important to remain able to measure our impact, to measure the added value we bring at the economic, human and relational level between citizens and the banks. The most important thing today is that we are able to measure our impact in real time.

.

You have a new project of a web platform, could you tell us more about it?

 

After the failure of the idea of a national credit file in France, we were looking for a project that could become a tool for all citizens. A tool that could calculate a budget in 5 minutes, give daily alerts when there are risks that can have fearsome consequences for households’ budgetary balance. The project will start in January 2018. We will recruit engineers and create a revolutionary application that could be extended to other countries.

“It is both a tool to tackle over-indebtness and poverty and a very effective tool for a personal budgetary support.”

Our system will present to households the ideal budget. It will create an expense budget, including electricity and phone bills… It will then calculate what remains and divide it per day, which will allow you to have a real time overview of your budget. The purpose is bring people from passive consumer to active actor. You can for example receive alerts that inform you about a higher energy consumption than usual and that can encourage you to consume less. It will also participate to a greener economy. When you will contract a credit in a bank, you will just have to show to the bank the number of credits you already have. That will prevent you from contracting a new credit that will drive you to over-indebtness and will help you to find other solutions! It is both a tool to tackle over-indebtness and poverty and a very effective tool for a personal budgetary support.

Do you have a story to share, witnessing the success of your project?

The latest story I have in mind dates back to October 30, during a TV show on LCP. Parliamentarians and a beneficiary from our actions were invited. “Droit de suite” is a TV show that you can replay online and that was preceded by the documentary “Mort à crédit”. I was invited for the debate part of the show. During the discussion, there was a woman I didn’t know because we don’t know all CRÉSUS beneficiaries, but I remember her. She was saying thanks to CRÉSUS explaining how it saved her.

Has the initial objective of your project been reached?

Oh no, it will never be reached. There will always be people who will have difficulties but thanks to our actions, we can see a decrease of the number of over-indebtness files of 10%. The web service project that will be launched in 2018 will strengthen this impact as we will be able to scale up and reach millions of people.

If you were in 2040, which would be the progress that would have been possible thanks to your actions?

The web platform is the last step. It is an objective tool (not made by the banks nor oriented toward rich people). We want to use it as a universal tool and I think that if we reach a couple million users, these people will be independent. We also have a project in Luxembourg. I hope that by 2040 the project will have extended to other European countries, particularly in countries such as Poland which need structures like ours.

Interview of Jean-Louis Kiehl, CRÉSUS chairman, reported by Virginie Siaud, November the 9th. 

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